Is a 17 year old Audi A4 really as unreliable as you think?

"jkm7680" (jkm7680) 01/03/2015 at 14:24 • Filed to: None

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There's a common misconception about Volkswagen and Audi. That misconception is that everything they make is unreliable garbage. Yeah, it's true that some of the products that they made weren't exactly reliable. For instance, the 1.8t engine introduced in 1996 which was featured in the A4, Passat and Jetta didn't really help their case. Don't get me wrong, the 1.8t could hit high mileage and was a good engine, but things like turbo replacements aren't cheap.

On the other hand, there was the 12v 2.8 engine. It's first glimpse of life was seen in the B4 Audi 80/90 and was carried on from 1991 all the way through to the 1997 Audi A4, A6 and Cabriolet (Yeah, I know you forgot about that one.) Making only 172 horsepower @ 5500 rpm, it wasn't a stunner and definitely wasn't considered fast by any means, but it had one "fatal flaw," which kept it from being the lovechild of APR. The 2.8 engine was only available with a 12v application until the 30v came along. The 12v only had 2 valves per cylinder causing for the engine to have trouble breathing. That, paired with a Hitachi Ecu which was impossible to reprogram meant that there are no Custom exhaust systems, Performance chips and supercharger systems.* In what some take as a curse, there is a blessing. Most of them haven't been ragged or abused at high speeds, meaning that plenty of them are available in stock condition in pretty good condition. The only fatal flaw is that there is little room for aftermarket performance modifications. I've had my '97 12v 2.8 A4 for seven months. Yeah, Maybe it doesn't get great gas mileage, and the backseat is a little bit small. But I can't really find anything else major to complain about. I'm sure as hell not angry that nothing has really gone wrong with it. How much money have I spent on unexpected maintenance? $30. Not a cent more, and that was for power steering fluid. Sometime before I bought the car, it received new control arms, and new brakes. Still on a supposed original clutch. That's apparently it, Those aren't only "VAG" things or "German car" things. Those are just standard maintenance things that all car owners will have to deal with eventually.

But as cars do, they depreciate. I picked mine up for around $2,400. With 145k, and nothing at all wrong with it. The car was in cosmetically great shape, it ran great and the interior still felt like the car could have been made within the last 10 years. Everything felt surprisingly solid, and I really wanted to know why they weren't worth more. After a quick alignment, and oil change the car felt just like brand new. Sure, there generally is a premium associated with German cars and most other cars for that matter, but I've heard of these engines cranking out 300,000 miles before biting the dust and I personally think that the 12v 2.8 engine is an engine that is still to this day completely overlooked.

Funktheduck > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 15:27

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The 1.8t era VWs are why I don't trust VWs. They've supposedly improved but I don't know anyone with any new VWs personally so I haven't heard anything one way or the other except from mostly positive from Oppos.

Alex B > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 15:30

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Picture of the whole car?

jkm7680 > Funktheduck 01/03/2015 at 15:31

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That's what I hear a lot about the 1.8t, This engine was older than the 1.8t and died in 2001, while the 1.8t kept going.

jkm7680 > Alex B 01/03/2015 at 15:32

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It doesn't look anything like this anymore, Haha.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 15:46

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The reliability issues are overblown. The real problem is the complexity and cost of parts and labor when reliability issues do hit. In a non-VAG product it might be a mild pain or expense; in a 15 year-old VAG product it becomes a double-digit labor-hour journey into the depths of your soul.f

coelacanthist > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:02

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I know I'm tempting fate here but oh well... I'm on my third golf in a row. My last one, a MkIII with the 2.0 performed flawlessly until traded in at over a quarter million miles. Other than a timing belt, breaks, tires, tune ups and oil changes, it required zero expensive repairs and never once left me on the side of the road. It even had the factory clutch when I traded it in. I think between me and my mom, the only "out of the ordinary" repair was a heater core on her MkII (which also did well over 200k in its time). I now have a MKV with the 2.5 at about 118k. So far

jkm7680 > coelacanthist 01/03/2015 at 16:06

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Awesome story man! They really are under appreciated for their surprising reliability as long as you take good care of them.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:09

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My dad had a tan Audi 4000s, with a 4-speed manual. That thing made it to 250,000 without missing a beat. He kept it over his 5000 which he described as "much nicer, but problematic."

jkm7680 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 01/03/2015 at 16:12

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The Audi 80 was awesome, their entire lineup back then was awesome.

And, About that unintended acceleration. It was people with fat feet, who mashed the gas instead of the brake Not an actual problem, Haha.

Manuél Ferrari > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/03/2015 at 16:16

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This is what I've heard a lot of people saying

Some Audis have been crazy reliable and were driven hundreds of thousands of miles without needing the engine or transmission rebuilt. It's not accurate to say all Audis are unreliable (not really accurate to say that about any brand - every car company has had some home runs and some misses).

Part cost and amount of labor required to change parts is what I've heard the real issue is on some Audis.

Manuél Ferrari > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:17

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I just met a dude with an older A4 that had over 200,000 miles on it. He's never had to do anything but scheduled maintenance and replace parts that eventually go bad, such as the starter.

He said he was on his original clutch. Long live Manuél!

jkm7680 > Manuél Ferrari 01/03/2015 at 16:18

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Haha, That's pretty cool.

Manuel must live on!!!!

Manuél Ferrari > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:21

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Manuél is the best!

The best German cars were made in the 80s and 90s and had Manuél inside

jkm7680 > Manuél Ferrari 01/03/2015 at 16:23

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RIIIIGHHHTTTT! Now most of them have automatic blergh!

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > Manuél Ferrari 01/03/2015 at 16:28

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Electrics became a huge issues in the late 90s/early 2000s as well; VAG products' reputations for electrical unreliability in that period is well and truly deserved. I don't speak from experience or anything, of course I'm not bitter.

coelacanthist > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:30

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Ah, I see my post got cut off for some reason. Yes, proper maintenance is key. Also I'm not shocked that the 1.8ts have picked up a reputation. At the time, if one was looking for reliability over performance, choosing the 1.8t over the far more simple 2.0 or vr6 would seem counterintuitive to me.

Manuél Ferrari > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:30

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It's so sad ;(

Automatics eventually have to be rebuilt

jkm7680 > Manuél Ferrari 01/03/2015 at 16:31

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Let's all take a moment of silence for our Lord, Manuel.

jkm7680 > coelacanthist 01/03/2015 at 16:32

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That's one of the reasons I chose the 2.8, I wanted something reliable to get me from point A to point B.

I'd still like a 1.8t for performance modifications, But if you want reliability and nothing else the 2.8 or another engine is probably the way to go.

Manuél Ferrari > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/03/2015 at 16:33

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Seems like every German car company had issues with electrics in the late 90s/early 2000s. BMW and Merc made some turds around that time.

My sister had a 2000 323i that was Eve biggest turd anyone in my family has ever owned! My dad replaced everything on that car. Then it got totaled. It was doomed.

Manuél Ferrari > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:33

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We shall build a church for him and praise him every Sunday

jkm7680 > Manuél Ferrari 01/03/2015 at 16:35

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I will gladly attend the worship.

coelacanthist > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 16:36

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If I could find a good clean mkIII gti with the six, I would buy one today. I've all but given up looking for a decent vr6 Corrado.

jkm7680 > coelacanthist 01/03/2015 at 16:41

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There's few stock ones on sale, Wish there were more of them out there. :P

Spaceball-Two > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 17:07

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I wish I had your reliability. Mine is back in the shop with what I suspect is a frayed fuel line.

Manuél Ferrari > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 17:24

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You are a good man

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 18:03

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That misconception is that everything they make is unreliable garbage.

Nah, just *most* everything they make. :)

Besides, the 1.8T wasn't the worst thing they made during that time. They took the fantastic 12V 2.8L V6, went to the 5V heads, debored/destroked it, and then slapped two turbos from the 1.8T parts bin with new mounts, and presto!

Instant APB 2.7T. Otherwise known as the first common Audi engine to have more-common-than-extremely-rare issues which can only be fixed with an engine pull. Just wait until they throw the 4.2L V8 into the B6 chassis... :)

Full Disclosure: I'm a B5 owner.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 01/03/2015 at 18:12

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God help you if something borked the K-line module communication bus. Or the CAN bus on later cars.

Yeah, something's not right, but we really don't have a damn clue as to why.

Also, incredibly innovative packaging in the engine bay, FTW. I need to replace X, but I have to disassemble the front of the car to get to it.

I'd gladly take the Mercedes engine I had in my E class over my S4. At least the Merc engine had only one step: Remove the intake manifold. Then everything was accessible.

jkm7680 > Manuél Ferrari 01/03/2015 at 18:14

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As to you, Please attend the worship service and bring a shift boot to sacrifice to our lord Manuel.

Manuél Ferrari > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 18:41

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This is a good idea

And once a year we have to bring in a perfectly healthy slush box to sacrifice. We will destroy it in the church to show our undying love and devotion

jkm7680 > Manuél Ferrari 01/03/2015 at 18:44

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Very good! I'll bring a CVT Altima for us to burn for dark lord Manuel this year!

Manuél Ferrari > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 18:47

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Awesome choice!

That car is such a turd

Axial > jkm7680 01/03/2015 at 22:18

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Why do people think that it's the engines that give VW their reputation? It's the goddamn electronics, not the engines. Engines for almost any brand are damn near bullet-proof.

jkm7680 > Axial 01/03/2015 at 22:22

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They're the easiest to blame. In some cases, it's the electronics. In other cases, it's just other stuff that people are complaining about.

What I don't get is that Toyota had a recall about unintended fucking acceleration, Chevrolet had a recall that resulted in multiple deaths and they aren't considered dangerous or unreliable. Audi's unintended acceleration was just people who had big feet struggling to navigate the pedals.

Axial > jkm7680 01/04/2015 at 01:41

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GM has a reputation for mediocrity, though, which is essentially the same thing as being considered unreliable and dangerous.